New album on the way!

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:55 pm

glamprincess wrote:

As for ACAS, I thought the concept of a serial killer was an interesting one but I felt it was not explored deep enough. The storyline had some holes, I think, in part because nearly all serial killers are sexual predators and the story did not really address this area. I don't know if Alice avoided this topic because he doesn't write songs with that much leering sexuality anymore, but I think it makes a story about a serial killer less realistic when the sexual depravity of the serial killer is omitted from the storyline. The story would have been more realistic with this included as serial killers are sexual predators and that is their motivation. So the part about just cutting off women's legs to make a spider just seemed less convincing and didn't really address the killer's motivations.

This is a very good point - even though this is all 'fiction' and 'musical fiction' at that, it appears that Alice may have self-limiting boundaries with some of these 'details' in his writing.

I must admit that I had not fully considered that point.

There are, however, some imaginitive lines that lend some licence to what is going on (e.g. 'spun my web deep inside her'), which, in typical Alice style, says whatever the listener wants it to say; although the impact of this may fall some distance short of the 'shock' target, and become dissipated.

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:24 pm

TEOAC was definitely the strongest of the last 3 albums.

It's a great fun album that is seriously underrated.

Marcelocooper · Post by **Marcelocooper** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:42 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:TEOAC was definitely the strongest of the last 3 albums.

It's a great fun album that is seriously underrated.

Agree, The eyes is fantastic, it was on the realease of that album that I really got into Alice Cooper, and unfortunatly at the time i didn't know how to buy online from other contries, so I still don't have the purple eyes one.
But this album was one of my choises to get Alice autograph, really love this one.

glamprincess · Post by **glamprincess** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:41 pm

Maurice wrote:
glamprincess wrote:
As for ACAS, I thought the concept of a serial killer was an interesting one but I felt it was not explored deep enough. The storyline had some holes, I think, in part because nearly all serial killers are sexual predators and the story did not really address this area. I don't know if Alice avoided this topic because he doesn't write songs with that much leering sexuality anymore, but I think it makes a story about a serial killer less realistic when the sexual depravity of the serial killer is omitted from the storyline. The story would have been more realistic with this included as serial killers are sexual predators and that is their motivation. So the part about just cutting off women's legs to make a spider just seemed less convincing and didn't really address the killer's motivations.

This is a very good point - even though this is all 'fiction' and 'musical fiction' at that, it appears that Alice may have self-limiting boundaries with some of these 'details' in his writing.

I must admit that I had not fully considered that point.

There are, however, some imaginitive lines that lend some licence to what is going on (e.g. 'spun my web deep inside her'), which, in typical Alice style, says whatever the listener wants it to say; although the impact of this may fall some distance short of the 'shock' target, and become dissipated.

Thanks Maurice.

I think the fact that Alice did not really explore the fact that serial killers are sexual predators is what caused Alice's lyrics to not be be his best. I feel it lead to holes in the plotline and also lead to Alice filling the lyrics with lines like "I'm Hungry!" as replacement for lyrics which should have dealt with the serial killer's real motivations instead.

I agree that the line "spun my web deep inside her" seems to explore the sexual aspects of the killings but it is too subtle and this area is still not addressed sufficiently throughout the story.

glamprincess · Post by **glamprincess** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:51 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:TEOAC was definitely the strongest of the last 3 albums.

It's a great fun album that is seriously underrated.

Yes, it was seriously underrated. And like I also said, the best of the last three albums. I think I consider The Eyes of AC and School's Out to be Alice's most underrated albums.

ElectedPlus · Post by **ElectedPlus** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:34 pm

With regards to ACAS, Alice seemed to have everything but the good music. With that I mean he had awesome photography, and the build up with the videos on youtube was really exiting - but really let me down at the music which, after all, is the essence of what the build up is about. In the past, it seemed the other way around - the good music and none of the build up.

It's also the final bit of the story that puts the nail in the coffin. A tale about a fictitious serial killer is great territory to create something about - be it an album or a movie - but as soon as it is put into question as to whether this fictitious character committed the crimes or not leaves me unimpressed.

Hannibal Lecter would lose any fascination if it turned out he only dreamt up his crimes of killing and cannibalism. It's the behaviour rather than the imagination behind it that makes him a real threat.

However - saying all that, I'm glad Alice is creating something new. Would much rather have this album than him repeating himself.

Dragonlady · Post by **Dragonlady** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:43 pm

I agree with Glamprincess, "Eyes" is a very very good album. I loved the raw rock-punk feeling of it.

Unlike a lot of you I really like ACAS, it will take another year until I can say where I'd place it in my list. Personally I adored the final twist, right up my alley. I prefer exploring the pysche rather than a "simple" serial killer story. That is a matter of personal taste and doesn't really bring much into the debate (since you insit in have one again

)

Where I also agree is that I hope this new album will not be too rushed. Parts of ACAS could indeed have done with some polishing as far as the storyline goes.

I wonder what would happen if they hired a writer to develop a concept. I know just who I'd suggest of course (Tim Powers)that would certainly win me over :D

Swinger · Post by **Swinger** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:44 pm

glamprincess wrote:As for ACAS, I thought the concept of a serial killer was an interesting one but I felt it was not explored deep enough. The storyline had some holes, I think, in part because nearly all serial killers are sexual predators and the story did not really address this area. I don't know if Alice avoided this topic because he doesn't write songs with that much leering sexuality anymore, but I think it makes a story about a serial killer less realistic when this aspect is omitted from the storyline because that is their motivation. So the part about just cutting off women's legs to make a spider just seemed less convincing and didn't really address the killer's motivations.

Personally, I don't see at all why the Spider should have needed to be a sexual predator. I don't know if most real serial killers are sexual predators but plenty of fictional ones are not and the Spider is after all one of them. And besides I think the lyrics have plenty of room to interpret him as a sexual predator if you want to.

Yes, the story of ACAS is very loose, some might consider that a bad thing but personally I think it makes it much more interesting. Alice is basically allowing the listeners to fill in the blanks themselfs.

All this might have been a bit off topic, at least in my opinion since I don't see what ACAS has to do with Alice writing a new album. Yes, a lot of people thinks it is a weak album and might fear that the next album will be weak as well, but a lot of people also think "Muscle of Love" and "Lace and Whiskey" are weak and the albums that followed them are usually considered some of Alice's best work. We'll just have to wait and see.

Personally, I'm excited (and I loved ACAS as well).

glamprincess · Post by **glamprincess** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:27 pm

Swinger wrote: Personally, I don't see at all why the Spider should have needed to be a sexual predator. I don't know if most real serial killers are sexual predators but plenty of fictional ones are not and the Spider is after all one of them. And besides I think the lyrics have plenty of room to interpret him as a sexual predator if you want to.

Yes, the story of ACAS is very loose, some might consider that a bad thing but personally I think it makes it much more interesting. Alice is basically allowing the listeners to fill in the blanks themselfs.

All this might have been a bit off topic, at least in my opinion since I don't see what ACAS has to do with Alice writing a new album.

Firstly, I was not the one who brought up ACAS at all. Other people were discussing it and I understand why they did because it related to the new album that has been mentioned.

I didn't say that Spider needed to be a sexual predator. I just pointed out that the story could have have had more depth if there was more to explain the motivation of Spider and I think it might have explained better why he cut his victims legs off to create a spider. It also would have made the story more true-to-life.

I was bringing up this point because many people on this board have complained about Alice's lyrics on this album. Personally, I don't think the lyrics are as bad as some people here do, although I admit they are not Alice's best. So I was just trying to find a possible reason why the lyrics and storyline seemed to disappoint some people. That's all.

Swinger · Post by **Swinger** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:40 pm

glamprincess wrote:Firstly, I was not the one who brought up ACAS at all. Other people were discussing it and I understand why they did because it related to the new album that has been mentioned.

I'm sorry if you interpreted that part of my post this way because that was not my intention. The reference to me thinking talking about ACAS was a bit off topic was directed at people in general.

ElectedPlus · Post by **ElectedPlus** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:55 pm

there was a great line where Spider refers to himself as an 'arachnaphobic psychopath' which I thought created a very interesting aspect as to why he created the spider of women's legs.

However, he seems rather concious of being psychotic as it's referred to a few times throughout - which seems a bit unlikely for someone to be aware of.

But yes - I, too, hope for some high quality lyric writing for whatever comes up next. But for this moment, I'm all for this Along Came a Spider tour - as far as I'm concerned, this next album is a glint in Alice's eye ... nothing to jump on. Yet.

Shoesalesman · Post by **Shoesalesman** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:13 am

glamprincess wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:TEOAC was definitely the strongest of the last 3 albums.

It's a great fun album that is seriously underrated.
Yes, it was seriously underrated. And like I also said, the best of the last three albums. I think I consider The Eyes of AC and School's Out to be Alice's most underrated albums.

How diverse we Alice fans are... I found The Eyes Of Alice Cooper to be the weakest of the last three, with Dirty Diamonds being at the top. Not knocking anyone's preferred favorite, just illustrating how different folks like different strokes.

And don't get me wrong... I find TEOAC to have some great songs on it, just not a whole package of goodness.

BellaDonna · Post by **BellaDonna** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:23 am

I can't figure out how to get the cool pink blocks of others posts here...I never could...sorry, please forgive...

Anyway, responding to Glam (love reading your posts!

): I perceive 'Spider' (from listening to ACAS) as an extreme sexual predator. Sometimes, it's what's said subtly that is stronger than what could be verbalized 'straight out'. For example: "I Know Where You Live" - I've never seen a stalker that isn't a sexual predator "...I'm alone in your room...go thru your things..the touch..smell..joy it brings...know where you're spending your nights..." Wake the Dead: 'you don't wanna know what's running thru my mind...' In Touch With Your Feminine side...etc..etc.. It's all there: he's just not "driving you like a hammer on a bed of nails" right now and rightly so: it's Spider played by Alice (or that's MY perception) at least!

I think that Spider is a perfectly created fictional serial killer, he's got a bit of every attrocity there is: sexual, cannibal, trophy, stalker, collector, artist etc...

The words and visual are there: the musical presentation isn't. I'd like a remake....

Cozzie · Post by **Cozzie** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:35 am

BellaDonna wrote:I can't figure out how to get the cool pink blocks of others posts here...I never could...sorry, please forgive...

Anyway, responding to Glam (love reading your posts! ): I perceive 'Spider' (from listening to ACAS) as an extreme sexual predator. Sometimes, it's what's said subtly that is stronger than what could be verbalized 'straight out'. For example: "I Know Where You Live" - I've never seen a stalker that isn't a sexual predator "...I'm alone in your room...go thru your things..the touch..smell..joy it brings...know where you're spending your nights..." Wake the Dead: 'you don't wanna know what's running thru my mind...' In Touch With Your Feminine side...etc..etc.. It's all there: he's just not "driving you like a hammer on a bed of nails" right now and rightly so: it's Spider played by Alice (or that's MY perception) at least!

I think that Spider is a perfectly created fictional serial killer, he's got a bit of every attrocity there is: sexual, cannibal, trophy, stalker, collector, artist etc...

The words and visual are there: the musical presentation isn't. I'd like a remake....

Great post.

At the end of the day it is up to the individual listener's interpretation.

"Spun my web deep inside her" leaves a lot more to the imagination than "driving you like a hammer on a bed of nails" and that's what make the lyrics of ACAS really quite clever.

glamprincess · Post by **glamprincess** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:35 am

BellaDonna wrote: Anyway, responding to Glam (love reading your posts! ): I perceive 'Spider' (from listening to ACAS) as an extreme sexual predator. Sometimes, it's what's said subtly that is stronger than what could be verbalized 'straight out'. For example: "I Know Where You Live" - I've never seen a stalker that isn't a sexual predator "...I'm alone in your room...go thru your things..the touch..smell..joy it brings...know where you're spending your nights..." Wake the Dead: 'you don't wanna know what's running thru my mind...' In Touch With Your Feminine side...etc..etc.. It's all there: he's just not "driving you like a hammer on a bed of nails" right now and rightly so: it's Spider played by Alice (or that's MY perception) at least!

I think that Spider is a perfectly created fictional serial killer, he's got a bit of every attrocity there is: sexual, cannibal, trophy, stalker, collector, artist etc...

The words and visual are there: the musical presentation isn't. I'd like a remake....

Thanks BD, you are very kind as always.

A few people have posted here that there is no point in trying to change anyone's opinion because they will always think they are right, no matter what. Well, I am going to show that's simply NOT the case, especially when people are able to make such good points. After reading the great responses to my post by BellaDonna, Maurice, Dragonlady, Cozzie, etc., I am rethinking what I wrote and I realize that you guys are right! The stalking does provide good evidence of the killer's obsession. And I agree that the message is better in a more subtle way and that lyrics like "spun my web deep inside her" are much better and more clever than more overt ones. Thanks for your feedback.

And I cannot wait to find out how Alice will perform this stuff onstage when he begins the "theatre of death" tour this week!

Dragonlady · Post by **Dragonlady** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:55 am

You're welcome! The point was not necessarily to make you change your mind, but if you enjoy the plot more now then it's a good thing.

I find it interesting to see other people's point of view. What I don't like is the constant "I know better attitude". Personally I prefer to look at all the good things rather than obsessing about what I don't like. What's the point it's not our creation anyway? All we can say is if we like it it or not. I find it so annoying when fans would like to "control" the artists.

I am happy that Alice is in good health and happy to create new music. That's all that matters to me eventually.

BellaDonna · Post by **BellaDonna** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:58 am

Agree with all, DragonLady!

moonshadow · Post by **moonshadow** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:23 am

Dragonlady wrote: I am happy that Alice is in good health and happy to create new music. That's all that matters to me eventually.

Exactly Dragonlady! and long may he continue.

The son of Don Quijote · Post by **The son of Don Quijote** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:27 am

I am very excited to hear new Alice material when ever it comes out. All I want is that Alice will continue to tour and make music. And just do what feels natural and keep his ambitious and experimental attitude. I think it is a big mistake for an artist to make compromises and try desperately please someone or especially everybody. This formula only brings dissatisfaction for artists while creating and quite often for fans too because results feel unnatural.

I will buy whatever Alice comes up next be it a stripped down straight forward rock album, a very orchestrated concept album or a modern metal album. I may like it or I may dislike it but I will continue to support Alice because he is my idol and he has brought a lot of joy in my life. His music has been with me in ups and downs of my life. I have cried on my bed while listening to Alice and jumped almost to the roof and wawed my hands in the air on better days while listening to Alice. His music is like a good old friend to me and I'm always in a comfort zone when I hear any of his songs. He has also been a big inspiration for my own art, writing and drawing surrealistic pictures.

My goal is to create my own writing career with same kind of work ethic and artistic ambition as Alice has done. Best way for the fellow artist to honour his/her idol is to take his/her own art as seriously as the idol does.

cooperrocks · Post by **cooperrocks** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:25 pm

I have to agree with WYM, Matt, Glamprincess and others concerning ACAS. The concept was a very cool idea but I think the execution was poor. I thought the production of this album ruined a lot of the songs and with the exception of "Vengenance is Mine" I don't consider any of the other songs particularly great. Another problem I have with the album is the theme is a serial killer which makes you think Alice is going to do a "dark album" but in my opinion the exact opposite is true.

In regards to the comments about the chart position, chart positions have become less important in today's musical climate. ACAS sold roughly 10,000 copies it's opening week, which was only from what I recall around 3,500 more copies than Brutal Planet sold in 2000, yet BP barely was considerably lower on the charts (If I am not mistaken I think it was around 183 or so). When you look at overall sales, and I am not trying to be critical of anyone's opinions or be negative, but ACAS's overall sales really aren't any higher or much higher than any of his albums since Dragontown or certainly the Eyes.

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